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Accident Report Book entries

PaulB 7 years ago   Reply
Hi,

Due to various issues regarding filling in the Accident Report Book, I am considering revising who is allowed to fill it in.

Details entered are often not relevant to the accident and sometimes incorrect, this may have severe implications if there is an insurance claim.

Am I allowed to do this? I was intending to only allow the supervisors/managers to fill in details of any accidents along with first aiders.

Folow ups and investigations to be carried out by myself.

Please advise

PaulB
CC 7 years ago   Reply
Paul,

As far as I understand this; 1/ it should be the IP who fills in the book wherever possible. 2/ As far as you limiting who else may view or fill in the details required, this would be in my mind good practice. I for one limit the people allowed to keep the subject matter as private as possible to try and keep as compliant as possible with the DPA. We should be mindful that it not a requirement of HASWA that the accident book is filled, but the Social Security (Claims and Payments) Regulations 1979. It should, therefore have no bearing on insurance claims. Again I believe this has been noted on a few occasions where an insurance company has lost this side of a case, as it does not form part of a third party claim. However I am not certain on this.
Hope this helps

Chris


Chris Cork - H&S / CDM Coordinator
Tel: +44 1644 430 008 | Mob:+44 7824 347 768
Email: chrisc@«hidden» | Reg:SC177881
Reg Office: The Green House, Forrest Estate, Dalry, Scotland, UK, DG7 3XS

Disclaimer:The information contained in this message is for the intended addressee only and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended addressee, please delete this message and notify the sender; do not copy or distribute this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Natural Power or any of its associated companies. No reliance may be placed on this message without written confirmation from an authorised representative of the company.

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Hi,

Due to various issues regarding filling in the Accident Report Book, I am considering revising who is allowed to fill it in.

Details entered are often not relevant to the accident and sometimes incorrect, this may have severe implications if there is an insurance claim.

Am I allowed to do this? I was intending to only allow the supervisors/managers to fill in details of any accidents along with first aiders.

Folow ups and investigations to be carried out by myself.

Please advise

PaulB

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bob.youel 7 years ago   Reply
Paul
I advise that you read up on the law re accident books as it's not as
simple as some may think e.g. accident books fall under social security
law not H&S law and the DPA also applies
B
-----Original Message-----
From: PaulB [mailto:construction-senderhidden@«hidden»]

Sent: 05 March 2010 12:01
To: construction-moderate@«hidden»
Subject: [construction] Accident Report Book entries

Hi,

Due to various issues regarding filling in the Accident Report Book, I
am considering revising who is allowed to fill it in.

Details entered are often not relevant to the accident and sometimes
incorrect, this may have severe implications if there is an insurance
claim.

Am I allowed to do this? I was intending to only allow the
supervisors/managers to fill in details of any accidents along with
first aiders.

Folow ups and investigations to be carried out by myself.

Please advise

PaulB

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me
Unsubscribe: construction-unsubscribe@«hidden»
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Jim 7 years ago   Reply
Hi PaulB and Chris,

Was reading your comments re: the Accident Report Book (ARB)BI15O.

PaulB large organisations will have ARB located in designated areas, where an injured person is taken to or reports to in the event of a cut or other type of injury. Normal the ARB's are completed by an First Aider or a reasonable person or someone with specific responsibilities for that work area.

The whole ethos of completing a ARB comes down to that person's honesty and trustworthiness.
I discovered to my detriment that an entry in a ARB in a college where i lectured had been tippexed and altered, concerning an injured student. After i discovered this i was susupended ( in Feb 2000). I was then faced with fabricated and trumped up allegations of having accessed confidential information, and it was further claimed that i accessed the ARB to pervert the natural course of justice.

When i had been susupended the College management placed a sheet on all notice boards around my Campus which listed /stated the names of the persons whom they NOW deemed to have the task of dealing with the ARB entries. On my return i even found some of these names to be different to the ones stated in the College Academic Diary for 1999/2000. Indeed the person who made the entry in ARB on this occasion was not recorded in the Academic Diary as being a First Aider, but was now on the new list that had been put on the Notice boards.

PaulB in your case, it is important to know your staff and if they are of sound integrity, and if they are going to be off work due to sickness, etc you need to have arrangements in place for this. My advise would be for you to periodic check and query any entry made in the ARB from time to time and to monitor regularly those to whom you give the task.

As regards Chris comment, i was wondering what the abbreviation HASWA stood for, and also could you inform me what happens a ARB when it is completely filled? I mean where does it go - to the Social Security Office ??

Also, given that there was never an investigation into the tippexing of the ARB in my case or into how the student received a head injury from falling objects which resulted in 3 stitches to his heads, does anyone know if there is a statutory period / limitation to the bringing of a HSE investigation by a presecuting officer ? If so, how would someone go about initiating this?

Cheers

JIM
CC 7 years ago   Reply
Hi Jim,
To answer your questions,

HASWA = Health and Safety at Work Etc Act. As for the pages of the ARB, they should be torn out at the point of entry, and then kept secure in the interest of confidentiality. The report book you may be referring to is now non compliant in that the pages are literally part of the book. The new book has perforated pages that allow the page to be removed once completed. You will also find on the spine of the page a section for the date, time and entry number that should correspond with the same on the page. Again, once 'empty' this book should be kept secure.

One problem we have found with the new book, as I know others have, is that I caught a supervisor reading the page below a completed one and was actually using a pencil to highlight the imprints made. He was implicated in the accident and trying to get info to help cover himself. People need to be alert to this and shown properly how to complete the book and keep it confidential as it should be.

I am still a great advocate of the person who has had the accident, where possible, completes the entry and signs where applicable that the entry is correct. I would also add, that where there is room for information to be added, this is crossed through to prevent further additions that may not be brought to the IP's attention. As this is a legally binding document, they would have no come back in the future.

I would argue, that in your case, the person who did 'tippex' out the entry, acted illegally for reasons above.

You are correct in stating that people should be officially authorised to either view or complete the accident report. They do not need to be sent anywhere official, unless an official body has made a legal request in the normal way and is entitled to view.

May sound over the top, but as you have clearly demonstrated in your entry, it can become a very serious issue, from such a simple task.

Hope this helps

Best regards
Chris


Chris Cork - H&S / CDM Coordinator
Tel: +44 1644 430 008 | Mob:+44 7824 347 768
Email: chrisc@«hidden» | Reg:SC177881
Reg Office: The Green House, Forrest Estate, Dalry, Scotland, UK, DG7 3XS

Disclaimer:The information contained in this message is for the intended addressee only and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended addressee, please delete this message and notify the sender; do not copy or distribute this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Natural Power or any of its associated companies. No reliance may be placed on this message without written confirmation from an authorised representative of the company.

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Hi PaulB and Chris,

Was reading your comments re: the Accident Report Book (ARB)BI15O.

PaulB large organisations will have ARB located in designated areas, where an injured person is taken to or reports to in the event of a cut or other type of injury. Normal the ARB's are completed by an First Aider or a reasonable person or someone with specific responsibilities for that work area.

The whole ethos of completing a ARB comes down to that person's honesty and trustworthiness.
I discovered to my detriment that an entry in a ARB in a college where i lectured had been tippexed and altered, concerning an injured student. After i discovered this i was susupended ( in Feb 2000). I was then faced with fabricated and trumped up allegations of having accessed confidential information, and it was further claimed that i accessed the ARB to pervert the natural course of justice.

When i had been susupended the College management placed a sheet on all notice boards around my Campus which listed /stated the names of the persons whom they NOW deemed to have the task of dealing with the ARB entries. On my return i even found some of these names to be different to the ones stated in the College Academic Diary for 1999/2000. Indeed the person who made the entry in ARB on this occasion was not recorded in the Academic Diary as being a First Aider, but was now on the new list that had been put on the Notice boards.

PaulB in your case, it is important to know your staff and if they are of sound integrity, and if they are going to be off work due to sickness, etc you need to have arrangements in place for this. My advise would be for you to periodic check and query any entry made in the ARB from time to time and to monitor regularly those to whom you give the task.

As regards Chris comment, i was wondering what the abbreviation HASWA stood for, and also could you inform me what happens a ARB when it is completely filled? I mean where does it go - to the Social Security Office ??

Also, given that there was never an investigation into the tippexing of the ARB in my case or into how the student received a head injury from falling objects which resulted in 3 stitches to his heads, does anyone know if there is a statutory period / limitation to the bringing of a HSE investigation by a presecuting officer ? If so, how would someone go about initiating this?

Cheers

JIM

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Jim 7 years ago   Reply
Thanks Chris for your comments.

I wondered if, given that an Accident Report Book (BI150) is now legislation, a case could be re-opened because both my techer's UNION and Management reached a disciplinary decision on the basis that the original or old Accident Report Book (BI150) was a confidential document, when clearly it did not comply with the requirements of Data Protection legislation.

Is there a link to the HSE website which specifically addresses the new Accident Report book format now complying with the Data Protection legislation ? ;

Jim
CC 7 years ago   Reply
No problem Jim happy to help.

I am not sure if there is link, however, you could argue that the document was not secure and therefore not compliant with the DPA, the very reason the books were changed.

I would suspect that they may have to prove who it was that changed the entry and also proved how they secured the said document to prevent such things happening. My advice would be to get a legal beagle to look at the whole picture and comment accordingly.

Also bear in mind, as said previously, the book is a requirement of the Social Security (claims and Payments) Act and not H & S.

As this is a Criminal not a Civil case and you believe a fraud has been committed, it needs to be properly investigated by a professional who fully understands the implications and due process.

Its an interesting one that has probably opened a few eyes on this forum.

Hope I have helped further

Regards

Chris


Chris Cork - H&S / CDM Coordinator
Tel: +44 1644 430 008 | Mob:+44 7824 347 768
Email: chrisc@«hidden» | Reg:SC177881
Reg Office: The Green House, Forrest Estate, Dalry, Scotland, UK, DG7 3XS

Disclaimer:The information contained in this message is for the intended addressee only and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended addressee, please delete this message and notify the sender; do not copy or distribute this message or disclose its contents to anyone. Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Natural Power or any of its associated companies. No reliance may be placed on this message without written confirmation from an authorised representative of the company.

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Thanks Chris for your comments.

I wondered if, given that an Accident Report Book (BI150) is now legislation, a case could be re-opened because both my techer's UNION and Management reached a disciplinary decision on the basis that the original or old Accident Report Book (BI150) was a confidential document, when clearly it did not comply with the requirements of Data Protection legislation.

Is there a link to the HSE website which specifically addresses the new Accident Report book format now complying with the Data Protection legislation ? ;

Jim

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Jim 7 years ago   Reply
Hi Chris,

You mention getting a proper professional to investigate this.
Would you or any one else for that matter know of any professional that perhaps you could redirect me to, to have the accident book incident investigated ?

Am i right to say that there is no statuture of limitations applicable in the case of a criminal investigational matter ?

Jim
Bill Sowerbutts 7 years ago   Reply

When does a use of power become "anti-competitive behaviour"

One of the issues that characterizes our industry is the presence of CITB
and then groups of powerful contractors (UKCG). One of the issues taken on
by these groups - I believe quite rightly - is to set the standards of
behavior and competence in the construction industry.

However there has been a trend in recent years for such behavior to appear
to promote self-interest by excluding competition. As a trainer I myself
have experienced it, where one of or programmes is not approved because it
is not from "such and such" an approved provider, and yet when we have tried
to seek approval, we have met with cost barriers that would mean we would
have to double our prices to fit in with their administrative requirements.


As other "member" providers are charging those higher prices, this effect is
to prevent us from providing what is effectively the same course at a price
that would give us a good living.

I also met with a similar restriction on entry from ECITB when I tried to
apply to provide their course, and was not allowed to because another
trainer existed in my area. Note it was stressed that my qualifications and
content were not the issue.

Perhaps I am missing something, but when I read Health and Safety
Regulations and ACoPs, I am always struck by how little specification there
is on such issues. Indeed you can argue that Government has not taken a
strong enough lead, and that if it did we could all fit in with those
requirements and know where we stood. But suitable and sufficient training -
by suitably competent persons or training provider are the types of language
used.

So my question is "why are we not having a stronger lead from the Department
of Trade and Industry to outlaw (yes outlaw) the practice of insisting on
contractors having to use a certain specified scheme as being the only one
that is allowed in order to gain work. We do not state only a degree at
Bristol or Aberystwyth universities (wonderful establishments though they
are) are the only recognized levels of qualification, but state a university
degree in whatever discipline is relevant to that job as sufficient
qualification. We do not state that we will only look at GCSEs provided
from JMB as the only ones that will be recognized, but allow other
examination boards to provide these standard examinations. One construction
college's NVQs are not regarded as intrinsivally superior to another
colleges' to the exclusion of the latter.

So why is this ring fencing of individual training schemes (CSCS and SMTS as
being prime examples) allowed? Surely for an industry group to specify such
schemes (and I notice that pre-qual assessors are also doing it now) as the
only recognized schemes, assumes those schemes to be the only valid measures
of competency and training. They are not. You can even argue that CSCS is
no test of understanding, just a test of memory, and that a set number of
hours of training would be much more valuable.

But I am not here to disrespect those schemes which as with most such
initiatives have worthy aims. My disrespect is for the myopia that will not
look at evidence of competency and training rather than insist on only this
or that scheme as being the only valid option. By doing so they bar
competition to provide better (possibly more cost effective) training and
instruction. Such behavior stifles initiative and talent and I believe is
tantamount to a restraint of trade. Surely any qualified trainer who can
demonstrate that he/she is covering a topic competently and assessing the
understanding of delegates is fulfilling the requirements of legislation (at
least apart from in licensed activities for which such trainers may need to
be Government approved licensed providers)?

Is it time for the authorities to look at this whole area, which by allowing
subjectivity and named preference to over-ride objectivity creates (at least
the potential) for the abuse of monopoly power, possible corruption and
price inflation.

Before the moderator jumps on me - I am not stating that things occur, but
while competition is stifled by considerations that have no basis in law or
codes of practice, there is at least always the potential for such practices
- and surely that is something that cannot be good for our industry
(especially in a recession).

Bill

Tony Knibb 7 years ago   Reply
Obviously it should be a responsible person who fills in the book so you
can designate whoever you see fit some H&S or first id experience would
be helpful

-----Original Message-----
From: PaulB [mailto:construction-senderhidden@«hidden»]

Sent: 05 March 2010 12:01
To: construction-moderate@«hidden»
Subject: [construction] Accident Report Book entries

Hi,

Due to various issues regarding filling in the Accident Report Book, I
am considering revising who is allowed to fill it in.

Details entered are often not relevant to the accident and sometimes
incorrect, this may have severe implications if there is an insurance
claim.

Am I allowed to do this? I was intending to only allow the
supervisors/managers to fill in details of any accidents along with
first aiders.

Folow ups and investigations to be carried out by myself.

Please advise

PaulB

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Jemma Thomas 7 years ago   Reply
We have a policy that wherever practically possibly the injured person fills out the details on the sheet and that person receives a copy for their records and the original gets sent to our HR dept for their records.

Obviously there will be times when the IP is not able to complete the sheet the 1st aid person attending will complete to the best of their ability and will advise HR that this was the case. A seperate report will then be completed by the Line manager of the IP and it is then (when and if possible) countersigned by the IP and attached to the original accident/incident report sheet.

I would imagine that common sense would be a great leveller here...but as someone else has said...be careful!

Jemma
Jim 7 years ago   Reply
Hi Jemma,

It is ok to permit an injured person to complete an accident book entry, if and when he can. However, if he/she enters a time which is convenenient for them to say they where at a particular place when they got injured and in fact they where not there, this can get others into difficulty, as in my case. So one can be too lacked by permitting an injured person complete a report and accept their evidence of the event as gospel. Here's where witness statements and proper supervision of such entries of an incident is critical.

Jim
Peter T 7 years ago   Reply
It is not just OK for the Injured Party (IP) to fill in the Accident Report Book, it's essential (unless they are incapable). In my previous work as an inspector, I have seen many examples where both the ARB and the RIDDOR were completed by the supervisor/manager and bore such little relationship to the facts (actually, outright lies trying to shift "blame" onto the IP) as to warrant a far deeper level of investigation than the incident actually deserved.
Suspicions of a cover up WILL prompt further investigation by the HSE (if they investigate) and also potentially skew the tone of an investigation, whereas a forthright open & honest account (or the impression thereof) should prompt the open-minded investigation expected of an Inspector.
Contrary to popular belief, most inspectors aren't trying to "catch you (the "Employer") out" or "trip you up with technicalities and then do you", but to demonstrably allow the evidence to lead the investigation. The Injured Party will invariably be interviewed, so their side of the story will be known to HSE anyway. The 'evidence' in the ARB (if completed by the IP) can only prove that the IP's "story" hasn't changed over time, it does not in any other way "support" the IP's version of events. Why cast doubts on the honesty of your account by providing evidence which might contradict something you may wish to bring up in court as a defense?
Please also note that falsification of evidence will be treated very seriously indeed and are separate indictable offences under both Health & Safety at Work Act and the Police And Criminal Evidence Act. If you believe that the alterations in the ARB are intended to falsify evidence or otherwise criminally mislead, you have a legal duty to report it to HSE or Social Security (depending).
Also, strictly speaking, the original page in the ARB should go to the IP and the copy go to HR. (especially in cases where the copy has some aspects of information redacted for DPA purposes). Some ARB's have 3 sheets; a top one with IP's full details, a middle one with only the details required by HR to identify the individual and the incident on that form, some personal details may be withheld even from HR eg. family doctor and a third copy which stays in the book with basically only Ithe IP's name and a brief description of the events.
PaulB 7 years ago   Reply
Hi Peter,
when I originally started this thread it was to establish the correct procedure. In my own case as a company we are being sued for injuries, the IP filled the Accident book entry a month after his "accident", which did not result in any time off work. The details he put in did not match what had occured and when he eventually put in a claim the wording left us in a tricky position. Our accident book has only one page which is removed within no more than 12hrs of entry and stored away from public view. It is not subject to HSE investigation but will no doubt cost us financially.
It was my intention that the filling in of details was carried out in conjunction with supervision/management and not simply left for possible exagerations by IP.
Paul
Jim 7 years ago   Reply
Hi Peter ,

I read you comments with interest, given your experience as an inspector. Where you a HSE Inspector ?

From your experience have you ever come across or had problems concerning a tippexed entry in a ARB (Accident Report Book)? Or has there ever been a legal case or case law concerning an accident in which a tippexed entry arose as part of the evidence, that you are aware of ?

If an incident was never reported to the HSE by an employer, which concerned a party at groung level receiving a gash to his head as a result of a wooden object having been thrown / dropped from a second storey level, is there any period of statute of limitations barring a investigation at some stage.?

What redress, Peter or anyone else for that matter, is open to the HSE in the above incident?

Regards

JIM
bob.youel 7 years ago   Reply
P
Check Social Security law and case law as that's where the 'accident
book' and its parameters come's from and not the HSE.

Claims come in whatever you do so you need to ensure that all your other
systems are OK as you can use 'evidence' from other areas against
claimants but things will cost you irrespective and many a case that is
morally wrong has been won because its more expensive to hire a brief
than to pay out - wrong but there it is!

-----Original Message-----
From: PaulB [mailto:construction-senderhidden@«hidden»]

Sent: 29 March 2010 12:39
To: construction-moderate@«hidden»
Subject: Re:[construction] Accident Report Book entries

Hi Peter,
when I originally started this thread it was to establish the correct
procedure. In my own case as a company we are being sued for injuries,
the IP filled the Accident book entry a month after his "accident",
which did not result in any time off work. The details he put in did not
match what had occured and when he eventually put in a claim the wording
left us in a tricky position. Our accident book has only one page which
is removed within no more than 12hrs of entry and stored away from
public view. It is not subject to HSE investigation but will no doubt
cost us financially.
It was my intention that the filling in of details was carried out in
conjunction with supervision/management and not simply left for possible
exagerations by IP.
Paul

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Jim 7 years ago   Reply
Hi bob.youel,

In relation to Social Security law and case law on acident books is there a specific website or poit of reference that you could direct one to? I would appreciate your assistance.

Thanks

JIM
bob.youel 7 years ago   Reply
J
It's been a long time since I looked at the area in detail so I advise
that Social Security; Claims and Payments law is looked at first

Accident books [BI510] are connected to the potential that claimants may
end up getting sick pay and even can go as far as how final pensions are
calculated based on how much a person has paid in over the years

The problem with many people is that they only connect RIDDOR and the
HSE to accidents where as it's a much bigger net than that
Regards
Bob Y

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Hi bob.youel,

In relation to Social Security law and case law on acident books is
there a specific website or poit of reference that you could direct one
to? I would appreciate your assistance.

Thanks

JIM

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This email, and any files transmitted with it, is confidential and
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they
are addressed. As a public body, the Council may be required to disclose this email, or any response to it, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act.

If you receive this email in error please notify Stockport ICT, Business Services via email.query@«hidden» and then permanently remove it from your system.

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Mark Feeney 7 years ago   Reply

The only thing that i would add that is where ever possible it is always best to get the injured person to complete the accident book, someone filling it in third had tends to miss information out.

 

I believe that the Social Security Act recommends that the injured fill in the form if able to do so as well.

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