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Lifting Plans by
Iain Morrison on
25 Mar 2009 10:16
Im aware when it comes to heavy lifts using cranes and other complex lifts using chain blocks you require lifting plans, competent person, appointed person, qualified banksman slinger etc.
What detail is necessary when using a HI AB and offloading from the back of a lorry. We were moving accommodation units using a lorry and HIAB the other day and I asked for a lifting plan and the impression I got from some of my work colleagues was that I was going over the top. The response I got was should we be also asking for the builders merchants when they are offloading building material on site for their lifting plans?
I feel its fair and reasonable to ask for lifting plans and that they all should be competent in the work that they do.
Im I being pedantic?
Regards
Iain
What detail is necessary when using a HI AB and offloading from the back of a lorry. We were moving accommodation units using a lorry and HIAB the other day and I asked for a lifting plan and the impression I got from some of my work colleagues was that I was going over the top. The response I got was should we be also asking for the builders merchants when they are offloading building material on site for their lifting plans?
I feel its fair and reasonable to ask for lifting plans and that they all should be competent in the work that they do.
Im I being pedantic?
Regards
Iain
RE: Lifting Plans by
Chris C on
26 Mar 2009 10:18
Iain,
As a former Lorry Loader operator, I was trained in the whole aspect of lifting / lowering of loads etc. This training was extremely thorough and included Dynamic Risk Assessment techniques. Maybe I was the lucky one, however, I would question the requirement for a full lifting plan for delivery of materials etc, to site.
My reasons are this; A) it is usually very short duration work, B) it is normally carried out by a person who knows his equipment backwards, (I know I can hear the cries now), but in the main C) where I feel that the construction phase plan, and subsequent risk assessment, should include such provision for these operations. If you were to keep this whole approach, we would require copies of every delivery companies risk assessments, method statements and competent contractors checks. I would also add the words 'So far as is reasonably practicable' to the argument.
Would it be reasonable to request every delivery company using such equipment to provide all the above, and a Lift Plan as you suggest? I would strongly advocate that a suitable competent person, e.g a trained lift supervisor be at the point of drop, for the purpose of supervision. I also feel that by requesting such documentation for what is generaly a non complex lift is going a little too far. We are trying to get people on board with safety, not drive them away. The old saying manage the risk not the paperwork springs to mind.
Please be assured, I am not as it seems 'having a go' and I do sincerely commend your efforts, I am merely pointing out experience.
Regards
Chris
========================================
Message Received: Mar 25 2009, 10:21 AM
From: "Iain N,. Morrison"
To: construction-moderate@«hidden»
Cc:
Subject: [construction] Lifting Plans
Im aware when it comes to heavy lifts using cranes and other complex lifts using chain blocks you require lifting plans, competent person, appointed person, qualified banksman slinger etc.
What detail is necessary when using a HI AB and offloading from the back of a lorry. We were moving accommodation units using a lorry and HIAB the other day and I asked for a lifting plan and the impression I got from some of my work colleagues was that I was going over the top. The response I got was should we be also asking for the builders merchants when they are offloading building material on site for their lifting plans?
I feel its fair and reasonable to ask for lifting plans and that they all should be competent in the work that they do.
Im I being pedantic?
Regards
Iain
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Chris Cork
Director Jupiter Safety Management Ltd
As a former Lorry Loader operator, I was trained in the whole aspect of lifting / lowering of loads etc. This training was extremely thorough and included Dynamic Risk Assessment techniques. Maybe I was the lucky one, however, I would question the requirement for a full lifting plan for delivery of materials etc, to site.
My reasons are this; A) it is usually very short duration work, B) it is normally carried out by a person who knows his equipment backwards, (I know I can hear the cries now), but in the main C) where I feel that the construction phase plan, and subsequent risk assessment, should include such provision for these operations. If you were to keep this whole approach, we would require copies of every delivery companies risk assessments, method statements and competent contractors checks. I would also add the words 'So far as is reasonably practicable' to the argument.
Would it be reasonable to request every delivery company using such equipment to provide all the above, and a Lift Plan as you suggest? I would strongly advocate that a suitable competent person, e.g a trained lift supervisor be at the point of drop, for the purpose of supervision. I also feel that by requesting such documentation for what is generaly a non complex lift is going a little too far. We are trying to get people on board with safety, not drive them away. The old saying manage the risk not the paperwork springs to mind.
Please be assured, I am not as it seems 'having a go' and I do sincerely commend your efforts, I am merely pointing out experience.
Regards
Chris
========================================
Message Received: Mar 25 2009, 10:21 AM
From: "Iain N,. Morrison"
To: construction-moderate@«hidden»
Cc:
Subject: [construction] Lifting Plans
Im aware when it comes to heavy lifts using cranes and other complex lifts using chain blocks you require lifting plans, competent person, appointed person, qualified banksman slinger etc.
What detail is necessary when using a HI AB and offloading from the back of a lorry. We were moving accommodation units using a lorry and HIAB the other day and I asked for a lifting plan and the impression I got from some of my work colleagues was that I was going over the top. The response I got was should we be also asking for the builders merchants when they are offloading building material on site for their lifting plans?
I feel its fair and reasonable to ask for lifting plans and that they all should be competent in the work that they do.
Im I being pedantic?
Regards
Iain
*-----------------------------------------------*
HSE Construction Forum
http://webcommunities.hse.gov.uk/ui/inovem.ti/group/construction/grouphome
Unsubscribe: construction-unsubscribe@«hidden»
^-----------------------------------------------^
Chris Cork
Director Jupiter Safety Management Ltd
Re: Lifting Plans by
joe on
27 Jul 2009 15:32
Hello, recently came across the need to provide a lift plan, full risk assessment and method statement to deliver to a site a container using a Hiab, as a method of fall protection an inertia reel would be connect to the hook on the crane,I was told this is not acceptable. I have seen this method used previously, and wanted advice on how to proceed, is the method of connecting to the crane hook ok and is it just this sites rules.
Any advice would be appreciated .
Joe.
Any advice would be appreciated .
Joe.
Re: Lifting Plans by
Paul Woodard on
27 Jul 2009 15:58
Probably something to do with potential fall distance (approx. 3 metres) and distance to fall before inertia reel engages and arrests a fall (generally 4 metres +). Therefore you will reach the bottom of your fall before your controls take effect!
Re: Lifting Plans by
joe on
31 Jul 2009 08:53
Thank you for reply Paul,
The height was not the problem (51/2 m) the reason given was attaching the fall block to the hook on the crane, since then I have continued to see this practice on other sites. I checked with the Hiab firm and this is their standard method.
Confused????
Joe.
The height was not the problem (51/2 m) the reason given was attaching the fall block to the hook on the crane, since then I have continued to see this practice on other sites. I checked with the Hiab firm and this is their standard method.
Confused????
Joe.
Re: Lifting Plans by
Paul Woodard on
31 Jul 2009 09:23
I would suggest that this is related to LOLER in that equipment used to lift people has to be tested every 6 months whereas equipment to lift materials has to be tested every 12 months (6 months for lifting accessories such as slings etc..). and therefore the crane you are proposing to hook onto is generally not used for lifting people (granted you will not technically be lifting people but the crane will be expected to support a person should a fall incident occur) and therefore will not be subject to the required frequency, and prehaps thoroughness, of inspection.
Re: Lifting Plans by
joe on
04 Aug 2009 13:55
Hello Paul, again thanks for reply,
I have asked this question to cabin hire firms, as I have repeatedly watched them use this method on almost identical containers as my own.
I was informed by one that the method used (attaching to the hook) is Approved Practice as issued by the mpba??? And that this "Approved Code" has HSE approval, now even more confused!
I originally thought that having my own container and moving it from site to site would be an easier way to work; I now have doubts, as I still cannot unload on site.
The hiab firm I used have unloaded my container in their yard, and are now demanding that I move it...
Has the world gone mad .... Or is it just me.
Joe.
I have asked this question to cabin hire firms, as I have repeatedly watched them use this method on almost identical containers as my own.
I was informed by one that the method used (attaching to the hook) is Approved Practice as issued by the mpba??? And that this "Approved Code" has HSE approval, now even more confused!
I originally thought that having my own container and moving it from site to site would be an easier way to work; I now have doubts, as I still cannot unload on site.
The hiab firm I used have unloaded my container in their yard, and are now demanding that I move it...
Has the world gone mad .... Or is it just me.
Joe.
Re: Lifting Plans by
Paul Woodard on
04 Aug 2009 15:34
The link below details a similar situation to yours - "fall arrest equipment anchoring to crane hook".
http://www.iosh.org/index.cfm?go=discussion.view&forum=1&thread=40476&page=361
which indicates that it would be considered accepted practice.
If the propsoed method is still not acceptable then the other alternative of arresting the fall is to provide soft polymer bean bags at the corners where a fall would be likely to occur.
MPBA = modular and portable buildings association
http://www.iosh.org/index.cfm?go=discussion.view&forum=1&thread=40476&page=361
which indicates that it would be considered accepted practice.
If the propsoed method is still not acceptable then the other alternative of arresting the fall is to provide soft polymer bean bags at the corners where a fall would be likely to occur.
MPBA = modular and portable buildings association
RE: Lifting Plans by
bob.youel on
26 Mar 2009 10:20
Ian
I think that it is fare and reasonable to ask for such plans noting that
people will do nothing unless they are forced to, so to ensure suppliers
etc understand your position you can put such conditions into your
agreements with then. Noting that the detail is relevant to the risk
present and it's only when you have an accident and investigation etc
against you that people realise just how useful such plans are
Irrespective of LOLER the MHSW regs need complying with and as it's your
site it's your rules that people should adhere to!
B
----- Original Message -----
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I think that it is fare and reasonable to ask for such plans noting that
people will do nothing unless they are forced to, so to ensure suppliers
etc understand your position you can put such conditions into your
agreements with then. Noting that the detail is relevant to the risk
present and it's only when you have an accident and investigation etc
against you that people realise just how useful such plans are
Irrespective of LOLER the MHSW regs need complying with and as it's your
site it's your rules that people should adhere to!
B
----- Original Message -----
-- Repeated lines have been removed. Click to show them. --
Re: Lifting Plans by
paulkier on
08 Apr 2009 08:52
Why not put together a generic but site specific lifting plan for the unloading of materials that is simple but effective, no more than a page of the salient points and have each delivery driver read and sign to say it has been understood before commencing off loading? This will help to ensure you have a procedure in place (reduce those sleeples nights) and that the drivers are aware of how you want things done on your site...
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